Windows XP Embedded April Chat (April 24, 2008)

Chat Topic: Windows XP Embedded General Chat
Date: Thursday, April 24, 2008

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Start of chat:

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: What is the difference between XP Pro and XP Embedded?
A: a. XP Pro:
1. Development tools not included; mainstream PC usage
2. High end-user flexibility
3. End-users can add and/or remove applications
4. Large image (1.6 GB space)
5. Sold through OEMs and retail
6. Higher price point than XP Embedded
b. XP Embedded:
1. Ability to run diskless, with limited amounts of memory
2. High developer flexibility
3. Developers select needed components; locked-down scenarios (end-users neither add nor remove applications)
4. Reduced image size using components
5. Optimize image size based on device requirements (8 MB up)
6. Embedded-specific features
7. Including headless state option, start from flash
8. Sold only through Microsoft Authorized Embedded Distributors and direct from Microsoft
9. Sold only to OEMs; lower price point than Windows XP

MattKell_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Hi, is XP Embedded compared to XP Pro restricted or limited in functionality? I personally couldn't get the device manager to work properly (all changes were volatile - lost after reboot). It wasn't a EWF build.
A: Yes, XP Embedded does have some limitations compared to XP Pro, but most of these are more in the form of licensing restrictions than technical limitations. Keep in mind that XPe is a componentized OS, and functionality in the runtime is dependent on having all of the components needed to support a particular feature. In the case of Device Manager, you may be missing some underlying components that are needed in order for device changes to stick. I unfortunately can't give you more specific guidance without knowing more about how your runtime is configured.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: What does XPe cost?
A: Usually, $995 for Toolkit, $90 per license. Please work with a distributor if you need more details.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: How can I format my CF for use with XPe?
A: The XPe utility Bootprep.exe can be run on the CF. However, if you still encounter problems (depending on the CF card you are using) you could try formatting the card on a Vista development machine. Formatting with Vista will lay down the boot sector. If you use Vista to prepare your USB Drive or CF Card, you can use Bootsect.exe (Provided on the Vista DVD) to modify the MBR to look for NTLDR. See this Technet article: http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/library/49ded4da-b66f-4b42-9563-04c218a1a6ac1033.mspx?mfr=true

Preston [MS] (Expert):
Q: What tools can I use to lock down the interface? Is there a menu somewhere, or a configuration utility? 2. When I run into an error during an application install, are there tools or resources that you recommend for figuring out.
A: As far as the application install goes, it depends on what type of problem you are seeing. Mostly, I would recommend using a tool like Dependency Walker to determine what DLLs are required. Then, I would use something like Process Monitor to determine what files and/or registry entries are missing for proper application execution

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Given the release of XPsp3, what is the road map for XP-e - will there be XP-e sp3
A: We are in the planning stage. We will have more information later this year.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Will there be a Vista Embedded? If so, when?
A: Yes, there will be. It's in the planning stage. We can't comment on the date yet.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: UFDprep.exe does not run from a Vista development machine- is this supported?
A: Currently ufdprep.exe cannot be run from a Vista machine because the API and IOCTL's used to format is not the same.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: How can I delete files on a system with FBWF enabled, and no keyboard?
A: a) Use Shift-Delete as Sean Liming mentioned when using shell.
b) Use cmd shell to delete file which doesn't move the file to the recycle bin.
c) Adding the recycle bin to the write-through list will cause deletes to fail because it means the file is being moved across protection boundaries and that is not allowed with FBWF. You can Bypass the Recycle Bin When You Delete Files and Folders in Windows XP - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320031
How can I delete files on a system with FBWF enabled, and no keyboard?
This question was originally from the XPe forum: http://forums.microsoft.com/EmbeddedWindows/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=3025915&SiteID=47

lyallen_MSFT (Moderator):
Q: In what MS Support phase is XP-e SP2, Mainstream support, or Extended Support
A: It is currently in mainstream, and will be until a successor product for XPe is released.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: How can I connect to my device through Remote Connection after resealing the image?
A: During the first boot of a cloned image, some of the cloning activities are done in parallel with service start up. If you have a service that starts before MSDTC reinstallation, it might interfere with reinstallation. DirectX on the system may also be one of the components that has contributes to this issue. The current workaround is to issue the following commands after cloning completes, in order to restart MSDTC and IIS:
msdtc -install -a
msdtc -resetlog
iisreset /restart

lyallen_MSFT (Moderator):
Q: I would like to remove everything from the start menu except for the programs that I want to appear. I also want to restrict use of CMD and lock down IE so that it will only go to sites in my domain.
A: This is usually down through group policy settings which sets certain registry keys on a per user basis. You can find some info on group policy at http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/library/3b4568bc-9d3c-4477-807d-2ea149ff06491033.mspx?mfr=true

lyallen_MSFT (Moderator):
Q: With regards windows update...is there a resource that filters patches so that only xpe specific code is deployed to the thin device? I'm worried about remote machines filling their rams if they are set for automatic updates...or is this not a problem?
A: XPe does not support updating the device from Windows Update directly. We support WSUS or SMS, where an admin can select which updates are applicable to the Embedded devices.

Milong [MS] (Expert):
Q: We make customized tablet PCs currently running Win XP Pro with customized apps. Would there be any practical benefits to the end user from switching to Win XPe such as longer battery life, reduced boot up time, etc?
A: There are advantages XPe has over XP Pro, like reduced footprint size and potentially boot up time depending on your image. However there are license restrictions on what XPe can be used for. You should contact an XPe distributor for more information but basically XPe cannot be used for general purpose computing. Your tabletPC may be restricted from using XPe.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Why does it take so long to boot from my USB DOK?
A: To support USB boot, the PC's BIOS must enable USB 2.0. Also, you might want to check your USB flash disk. Not all USB flash disks are created equally.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: On my FP2007 system I am trying to get the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon to appear in the system tray when a USB Flash disk is inserted in the target.
A: Here is why: If the "USB Boot Mass Storage Device" component is in the configuration, it will prevent the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon from being displayed. "USB Boot Mass Storage Device" is used for USB 2.0 booting from USB Drives, and makes the USB flash drives look like a fixed disk - no "Safely Remove Hardware" icon because you don't want to remove them.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: I used Ghost to make an image of my XPe runtime that has EWF (RAMREG) enabled . After I deployed the ghosted image, the EWF volume was not found- what is the problem?
A: Because EWF creates a EWF volume during FBA, the EWF volume must be created on all of the devices to which you are deploying. You can create the EWF partition by running "rundll32 ewfdll.dll Configure Ewf". You can also make sure you capture the entire hard disk, or at least all the partitions, when you run Ghost.

MattKell_MSFT (Expert):
Q: What happens if EWF RAM is full?
A: If your overlay fills up, the system will start experiencing "Delayed Write Failures", among other things. EWF RAM is shared with free system memory, and as the overlay grows, less of the memory is available to the OS (though the OS is not aware of this). Behavior may be unpredictable until you reboot the system. To mitigate this, you should try to optimize the system to perform as few write operations as possible.

MattKell_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Can you protect your system from unexpected shutdowns with XPe?
A: We provide several Embedded Enabling Features that can help to protect your system from corruption in an unexpected shutdown. One of these, Enhanced Write Filter, protects your storage media from being written to - write operations are redirected to a RAM or Disk overlay and are not committed to the original storage volume unless you specifically direct it to be. If the system loses power, there is less risk of damage to the volume or loss of files, depending on your needs.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Can I add a component to my runtime image once it has already been deployed?
A: It is not supported or recommended, as each component will also have its associated dependencies that need to be added as well. That being said, if the component consists of just a few files and you have evaluated that you already have the required dependencies satisfied in your image you can bin place the file from the repository to the runtime, and add any registry keys that may be required. In the case of drivers, as long as you have the required class-installers and other "plumbing components" in your image for that device driver category you can bin place the driver files and .inf in the image and reboot- Plug and Play will take care of installing the driver.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: When I delete a device in Device Manager it reappears on reboot. How can I disable\delete a device on XPe?
A: You may be able to set the registry key for the device service to "Stop":
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\<device>[Start] = 4

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: How can I add a file to my .NET assembly on XPe?
A: You can bin place the dll on the runtime and then run the following command: c:\windows\Microsoft.NET...\v2..\gacutil /i "<path to dll>". You can also add the file to \WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\BaseAssemblyListV20.txt.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Is it possible to create a bootable CDROM that will boot to this .SDI image as well?
A: With Feature Pack 2007, it is now possible to create an El Torito bootable CD that will boot on USB CD-ROM drives - just include the USB 2.0 Boot component and its dependencies in your configuration. There is a white paper that discusses how to boot an SDI file: <http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms838543.aspx>

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Is there is a Microsoft Certification for XP Embedded?
A: No, there is no formal certification. You can find training classes offered by our training partners at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/partners/find/default.mspx?AdvancedSearch=true&WEXPTrainingPartner=true#CurrentResults

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Can XPE be localized for different languages?
A: Yes, it can- XPe offers 23 MUI packs. These are installed separately on the Embedded database (from http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/embedded/aa731405.aspx), and you can add multiple languages to your runtime. It is recommended that you limit the number of languages in Target Designer, otherwise the build and FBA time will go up.

Weijuan Shi [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Not all strings are localized in my MUI runtime- is this expected?
A: XP Pro offers both MUI packs (partially localized OS features) to install on top of an existing OS, as well as fully localized OS versions. XPe only offers MUI packs. Each Windows feature has certain strings that are localized into various languages that are then part of the MUI packs. Not every language may have all the strings localized. This means that some strings may be localized on one language but not on another. Strings that do not have localized equivalents remain in English.

Parag_MS (Expert):
Q: Subnotebooks like Eee PCs coming strong these days. Will there be an XPe for home users?
A: XP Embedded is a Toolkit designed for OEMs; they can choose what hardware to deploy their images onto depending on use case of the device.

lyallen_MSFT (Moderator):
Q: Is another chat session planned?
A: Bill, we normally have chat on XP Embedded every 6 weeks or so. The dates will be posted on the chat calendar, the team blog, newsgroup and forum.

Milong [MS] (Expert):
Q: I would like to use the hibernate once, recover many options with the EWF but it seems to require running in EWF RAM mode with all disks write protected with the overlay in RAM or risk data corruption. Is there any way to have one disk not EWF protected?
A: When you are using HORM, any partition which is writable must be protected. As you know this is due to potential corruption issues. There is no way around this. Can you elaborate why you need some partitions unprotected? For example, what kind of data you want to write?
Q: I am capturing audio input recordings and need to keep the .wav files and a distilled information file for historical analysis purposes. The .wav files would fill my ram up way too quickly.
A: An option might be to play around with EwfMgCommitFile API. This allows you to continue a file which is already on disk. The file location and size may not change. So if you can put the data in such a file and programmatically commit, that might solve your problem