Windows XP Embedded December Chat (December 4, 2007)

Chat Topic: Windows XP Embedded December Chat
Date: December 4, 2007

Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity

Start of chat:

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: What is the difference between XPe and CE?
A:CE runs on a variety of low power consumption architectures (ARM, MIPS, Long ARM, etc.), has a smaller footprint, and is ideal for low power consumption devices. XP Embedded runs on X86 only, has a larger footprint, and is ideal for non-battery devices with more storage and memory than typical hand held devices. Windows XPe is good here because it offers 100% API/Development symmetry with XP, and drivers are readily available for IO. Applications developed for XP can be easily ported to XPe.

cuong [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Screen rotation works well using api changedisplaysettingsex but with a black screen for a moment,that is undesirable in mobile or pda devices so how can i remove that particular flicker?
A: Have you tried the API call on XP Pro?

MattKell_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Now as I am working for a mobile device so particularly this is undesirable,kindly assist me to sort out the problem.Similar action we can see in HTC mobile devices,which works on windows.
A: Hi Ravi. Is this an issue with Windows XP Embedded or Windows Mobile/CE? Unfortunately, we cannot provide support for Mobile/CE issues in this forum - if you're having trouble with those systems, I'd recommend the Mobile newsgroups or device forums.

Q: yes sir its with windows embedded xp
A: Okay, cool. :) So the function works correctly in XP Pro, but fails in XPe? And you said the function you're using is ChangeDisplaySettingsEx? Is there a particular graphics driver that your application is dependent on, or is it designed to work with a variety of drivers?

Q: But the problem is flicker?As you can see while changing display settings on any system?
A: I'm not an expert in graphics driver applications, unfortunately, but I have never seen screen rotation occur in XP Pro without a brief screen blank. It has mostly to do with how the drivers handle the frame buffer and coordinate mapping in XP. I suspect that this sort of thing may work better in Vista, but I don't know of a technical solution to the screen-blank problem in XP. If the behavior also occurs in XP Pro, then there's likely no solution unique to XPe for this issue.

Q: may be registry setting change or any thing,i dont know,but there is some solution?
A: It sounds like someone has figured out how to do that flicker-free. Unfortunately, I don't think this is a question we can answer here, as this appears to have to do with specific driver applications and not the OS itself. I'm sorry we don't have a solution for you here.

Q:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3bvyf_rotateme-on-n95_tech --this is the action i am required with they are using some other os but do winxpe supports this?
A: The short answer is that if it works in XP Pro, it should also work in XP Embedded, since XPe uses the same binaries and registry structure as XP Pro. About the best I can say is to ask in driver-developer communities about how to tackle this problem - it does not appear to be an issue specific to XP Embedded.

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: What is an embedded system? And how can XP be an embedded operating system?
A: At a high level you might describe it as anything that is not a general purpose computer such as laptop, desktop, or mainframe is an embedded system. Embedded systems can range from large display systems to small pocket computers down to 8-bit micro controller systems. XP Embedded addresses the needs for high end systems that are plugged in or laptop battery operated. Usually XPe devices are ‘connected’ devices.

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: Are there any books on XP Embedded?
A: Yes, there are three books: Windows XP Embedded Step-by-Step, Windows XP Embedded Advanced, and Windows XP Embedded Supplemental Toolkit. The first two are available from Amazon.com and the last one is available from http://www.sjjmicro.com

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: Is there a training course for XP Embedded?
A: Yes, Microsoft has a 3-Day course available for those wanting to learn the basics of XP Embedded - to see partners that offer training for XPe visit this link- http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/partners/find/trainingpartners.mspx

cuong [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: I have a kiosk solution running on XPe. The issue i am facing here is that it drains my device's battery very fast. Any suggestion for improvements in that area
A: How is your kiosk running on battery? I am only familiar with kiosks running on AC power.

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: What kind of projects can you build with Windows XP Embedded?
A: With rich features from networking and multimedia, XP Embedded is used in a number of different areas: gaming machines, thin clients, set top boxes, test equipment, point of service, high end printer solutions, network storage devices, lighting control systems --- just to name a few. 

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: Are there websites or forums that we can get more information about XP Embedded?
A: Yes, the XPe Team has a blog, there are XP Embedded forums, and many of our MVPs have websites that provide different insights into developing XP Embedded. The Team Blog is:
http://blogs.msdn.com/embedded.

We have an MSDN Forum at:
http://forums.microsoft.com/EmbeddedWindows

Here are some of our MVP web sites/blogs:
http://www.seanliming.com
http://www.xpefiles.com
http://km-dev.blogspot.com

cuong [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Hi We have coupe of solution on Embedded CE? but not clear why should i move to XPe?
A: What kind of solutions have you now?

Q: mainly VOIP solutions
A: Are your solutions running on x86 processors?

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: Where can I get started learning about XPe?
A: You can watch the tutorials at:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/embedded/aa731297.aspx
or try a hands-on virtual lab at: http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/WebCastEventDetails.aspx?EventID=1032315321&EventCategory=3&culture=en-US&CountryCode=US

MattKell_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I have a PC that came with Windows EP already installed (I don't know if this means it's embedded or provides relevant info) but my problem is with Internet Explorer 7 just suddenly closing/ "poof" as soon as I attempt to open chess site pages that include
A: Hi there. Is this an issue you're having with Windows XP Embedded? We cannot provide support for issues with XP Professional or Home Edition in this forum - you may want to ask your question in either the Windows or Internet Explorer newsgroups. 

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: Does XP Embedded support ARM processors? If not when will it be supported?
A: No. XP Embedded only supports x86 processors. Pentium III class processors or higher. There are no plans to support other processor architectures

MattKell_MSFT (Expert):
Q: I have a question regarding how to set screen resolution. It seems that in target designer you are able to set the resolution but the resolution always defaults to the native resolution of the LCD being attached.
A: Hi Martin. Is there a specific driver that you're using for the video card in your target machine? Some drivers may perform their own setup during FBA or post-FBA, which may include detecting the display device and automatically setting the "optimal" resolution for that device. In that case, the Target Designer resolution settings will not take effect, and you may need to include a workaround to reset the resolution manually or programmatically via RunOnce or a custom script in this case.

Q: Right - my experience is based upon at least 3 different video drivers. I think your answer is that there is no way other than programatically in the shell or runonce.
A: It's difficult to say. Have you been able to get the resolution change via TD to work properly using other drivers? Or do they all exhibit the same behavior? Does the behavior change with different display devices? These questions will help me understand if the problem is with the driver or has something to do with your SLX file.

Q: It appears to be the same behavior in all drivers. Regardless of the chipset etc. To me it seems that the target designer settings are always ignored regardless. I have had to do this programatically.
A: Hmm, interesting. What revision of the XPe database are you using?

Q: FP2007, Rollup 1
A: Alrighty. Since time in this chat is running short, I'll take this issue offline. Target Designer should allow you to set your resolution in the SLX, so it's possible that something is interfering with that process when it shouldn't be. I'll see if I can repro the issue here.

WeijuanShi [MS] (Moderator):
Q: Was my question about IE7 shutting down whenever I try to open any chess site webpages with GUI including (typically Java-based) chessboards?
A: Is this an issue on a Windows XP Embedded system? If not, we are not the best expert to help you. You may want to look for IE7 chats or newsgroups etc.

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: How much RAM is required?
A: The ram required is dependent on the type and number of applications running and the number of OS services running and whether your device will have a pagefile. Many typical thin client devices have historically had 64MB/128MB ram while high end multimedia related devices like gaming devices may require 1-2GB ram. In our testing of minimal runtime environments with few services we've seen devices operate with as little as 32MB ram though this is not indicative of a real world device.

cuong [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Is there a plan for Silverlight on Windows XP Embedded? If yes, what is the timeframe we can expect?
A: Yes, we are planning to enable Silverlight on XPe in a future release in calendar year 2008.

milong [MS] (Expert):
Q: How can I determine if I have Windows XP embedded?
A: On a running image, you can call GetversionEx. The suite it returns will be VER_SUITE_EMBEDDEDNT. See the following link for more information: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms724833.aspx

cuong [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: okay- I don't have an XP embedded system. Thnks
A: Additionally, if you have an XPe device, it should come with a Certificate Of Authenticity sticker clearly stating that it is a Windows XP Embedded device.

WeijuanShi [MS] (Moderator):
Q: Doug: I keep getting a message for an "Interactive Services Dialog Detection" the program it refers to is: c:\Program files\internet explorer\svchost.exe. Any ideas?
A: Doug: Is this an issue on a Windows XP Embedded system or just Windows XP? If the latter, sorry that we are not the best expert to help you. You may want to look for the relevant chats or newsgroups on Windows XP.

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: Is XP Embedded Real-time?
A: XP Embedded is not a real-time operating system, but there are add-on solutions that are available from a few or our partners. Here are some links to partners that offer real-time extensions for XP Embedded:
- http://www.ardence.com/embedded/products.aspx?id=70
- http://www.tenasys.com/products/intime.php
- http://www.kuka.com/usa/en/products/software/real_time_technology

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: I have to build Windows CE from source code. Does XP Embedded get built the same way?
A: XP Embedded gets assembled\built from binaries that reside in a repository shipped with the product. The binaries are the same binaries that are in XP Pro. This makes development of an XP Embedded system faster that other embedded solutions since the tools are assembling the OS, not compiling the OS.

cuong [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: What is the best recommendation for a cool front-end as well. (continuing from prev question)
A: If I understood your question correctly, you could write your own shell and use it in place of the standard Explorer shell.

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: What type of boot media does XPe support? Can you boot from Flash? USB Disk on Key?
A: XPe supports everything XP-Pro supports such as IDE, SCSI, SATA and also supports booting from Flash devices as well including USB Boot as of the Feature Pack 2007 release of XPe. XPe also supports booting the OS from CD and also Remote Boot via a network for diskless systems

WeijuanShi [MS] (Moderator):
Q: This chat is scheduled to accommodate India customers. I wonder how many of you chat guests are from India, or other countries outside US.

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: What is HORM and what are the typical applications for this feature?
A: Hibernate Once Resume Many can be used with EWF to implement a fast booting stateless device. For example, a KIOSK is put into an initialized state, then its memory state is dumped to a hibernation file (Hibernate once). EWF Ram Mode is then enabled and with the device set to resume from the Hibernation File. If the device is rebooted or loses power, it very quickly resumes from the Hibernation file as opposed to going through the standard Windows boot cycle.

cuong [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Anything new in the works for XPe with a release in spring?
A: We will announce the new Windows XP Embedded release in calendar year 2008.

Q:Anything regarding major new features that you can mention?
A: The new XPe release will include Service Pack 3, enable Silverlight, etc. The announcement in 2008 will have further details.

WeijuanShi [MS] (Moderator):
Q: I need people who can give me constant architectural advice in India for XPe - can I have the email ID of any contact please?
A: We recommend you leverage the community resources we have first, e.g., forums, newsgroups. If that doesn't work for you, you can contact Microsoft Support. You can find all the info here:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/embedded/bb545054.aspx
Our team blog site also has all kinds of resources for you: http://blogs.msdn.com/embedded/default.aspx

If you exhaust all the options, you can also email us at wecrt@microsoft.com.

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: Why do we have two types of write filters? When would I use one or the other?
A: EWF is sector based and protects every sector on the protected volume. This is ideal for a device that is booting from Read Only Media, or can Wear (like CF). This is ideal for stateless devices, but not for Paging (RAM Configuration) and Servicing (need to commit and reboot). FBWF is file based, allowing the user to protect files and directories. This is ideal for protecting the OEM’s application and data, but allowing the device to update the OS (not protected) with paging enabled. 

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: What are the hardware requirements for booting off a USB disk? Who is using this feature today?
A: You need a device that has INT13 BIOS support for USB 2.0 Boot. Paging, Hibernation, and Crash Dump is not supported yet in the first release of Usb Boot (Stand-By is supported). 

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: Is XP embedded a better choice than XP Pro for thin clients? Why or why not?
A: It depends on the requirements, If you're not building a General Purpose Device (installing general applications like Office, etc) and you want a Special Purpose Thin Client Device, then XP Embedded is a good choice since you reduce the code surface to fit your requirements, and have available to you the Embedded Enabling Features (EWF, FBWF, USB-BOOT, HORM, etc.)

MattKell_MSFT (Expert):
Q: Can you explain the concept of sealing when building an XP embedded image? What exactly goes on during this process?
A: You are referring to the System Cloning Tool, an Embedded Enabling Feature that allows you to create a runtime and then clone it to multiple devices. This process includes resealing an image, which puts it in a state where it can then be copied to other devices. Each device then boots up and has its own unique device ID and computer name, and therefore can coexist on a network.

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: How is XP Embedded different from WePOS?
A: XP Embedded is a repository of component technologies that can be used to build any type of specialized device. WePOS is an example of one of those device’s specifically a Point of Service device.

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: What is the smallest XP embedded device in production?
A: Don’t know, but XP Embedded allows you to configure Min-Logon, a custom shell, Win32 support, and an IP Stack, at about 50MB enabling some good device scenarios. 

WeijuanShi [MS] (Moderator):
Q: I want to synchronize my palm pda to microsoft outlook, which program would be the best way to go?
A: Is this an issue on a Windows XP Embedded system or just Windows XP? If the latter, sorry that we are not the best expert to help you. You may want to look for chats, newsgroups or other community resournces on outlook or mobile.

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: Are WPF and WCF supported on XP embedded?
A: Yes, XPe Update Rollup 1.0 includes a component for installing .NET 3.0 on Embedded. WPF and WCF are features of .Net 3.0

Andy_MS (Moderator):
Q: Are there networking devices (like routers, switches, gateways) today that use XP embedded?
A: This is an interesting device category that we probably need to look into more. I've seen Home Gateway devices but I'm not sure if there are Enterprise-ready routers running XPe, I don't have insight into the thousands of devices built over the years :-)

WeijuanShi [MS] (Moderator):
Thank you for joining us today for our chat with the Windows XP Embedded team.

A special thank you to the product group members for hosting today. We’d certainly welcome you to post in the XP Embedded forum: http://forums.microsoft.com/EmbeddedWindows

or the newsgroup:
microsoft.public.windowsxp.embedded

Don't forget to check out our blog as well:
http://blogs.msdn.com/embedded.

A link to the transcript will be posted to the blog, forum and newsgroup in the next two weeks.

We hope to see you again for a future chat!